Talking about Shindo Muso Ryu Jojutsu
Attendant: Takaji Shimizu, Morio Wagatsuma, Ichitarou Kurota
Host: Tetsurou Morikawa

Shindo Musho Ryu is one of the famous Jojutsu (stick fighting) created by Hatanosuke Musou. Hatanosuke is very famous for beating a great sword fighter Musashi Miyamoto, and Takaji Shimizu is the 27th direct decedent who carries over the Jojutsu and teaches in the police academy.

Mr. Shimizu is considered as a leader of Jojutsu’s restoration. Before Mr. Shimizu’s generation, Jojutsu was only practiced among very limited population. However, Mr. Shimizu made Jojutsu to be known more people these days.

After Mr. Shimizu got hired from the police academy, Jojutsu quickly became popular all over Japan. Considering the fact that he made Jojutsu acknowledged by many people, he is completing the important mission for the destiny of Jojutsu.

Mr. Shimizu is not only a master of Jojutsu but also a very skilled Bujutsu fighter. He is very skillful at sword fighting, chain fighting, jutte, and rope fighting. He is a master of all of these fighting methods, and his students now are also teaching in police academy.

As you know there are Shimizu style martial art school everywhere in Japan, but I decided to go to see Mr. Shimizu in person to hear all the stories over Jojutsu and to ask him to show the real Jojutsu for me.
(Written by Tetsurou Morikawa)

The technique defeated Musashi Miyamoto

Morikawa: Thank you so much to give me this opportunity. Moreover, I cannot be happier with all those important Bujutsu teachers from police academy came here to talk to me. Thank you very much, again. In a way, you gentlemen are the only people who are applying modern Bujutsu to the real life for good purpose.

Kurota: You can say that. Some people might use their Bujutsu skill for committing crimes or violent activities, but polices are the only people who are legally allowed to use force to arrest criminals for the public security. Therefore, teaching Bujutsu in police academy is very effective way to influence the society. I would say, you know, police need to posses their weapons, also they need to posses Bujutsu as well.

Wagatsuma: It is also important to address that even though you don’t use any Bujutsu fighting skills, if you know Bujutsu, it is really possible to make opponents to be overwhelmed by our ki. If you can do it, it will be very easy to deal with the people whom you might have to use some force over.

Shimizu: When the opponent desperately fights against you, and you try to use Bujutsu which you just learned a little bit, which would create a pretty dangerous situation for yourself. You know you feel like you can fight really well, but you just learned a bit about it. You are not that perfect. However, if you learn Bujutsu properly and sincerely, and use the skill to go against the opponents, you can deal with the dangerous situation without you getting hurt.

For example, recently one police officer used a stick to knock down 2 gangs at the same time. He used one Jojutsu technique called “Suigetsu” (means Water and Moon). But I have to say that he was practicing those techniques all the time, therefore he was able to use one of them spontaneously in the high risk circumstances.

Morikawa: Speaking of “Suigetu”, that is the technique that Hatanosuke Musou used when he defeated Musashi Miyamoto.

Shimizu: Correct. Hatanosuke used “Suigetu”over Musashi‘s special technique “Juujiryuu” (Cross tight). First, Hatanosuke pressed Musashi’s cross part of Juujiryuu with his stick and then grabbed the stick with both hands. Quickly he approached his body really close to the Musashi’s body and then Hatanosuke hit the Musashi’s forehead with his upper fist. Lower fist complete the “Suigetu” form. Hatanosuke used his bear fist to hit Musashi and beat Musashi’s two swords “Juujiruu”.

Morikawa: Hatanosuke was such a great sword fighter! That’s the Kata (form) you just demonstrated, right?

Shimizu: Yes. Mr. Kurota demonstrated the Musashi part which involves two swords, and I demonstrated the “Suigetu”. Hatanosuke invented this Kata with risking his life when fighting against Musashi Miyamoto, and now I am trying to pass it on to modern world.

Morikawa: I’ve learned that each Bujutsu’s Kata (form) has great stories and history behind. It is worth to pay attention to those stories behind as well.

Shimizu: You are totally right. If I talk about Kata of Budo, nowadays people react like “What the hell. Who cares?” They tend to think Kata is boring but real fighting is cool. However, each Kata was created by those great martial art fighters when they were fighting in the real fighting with risking their life. Or over the course of fighting, they started realizing one movement being very effective and analyzed the movement more efficient way to create one Kata. In other words, each Kata went through real rough fighting and formed the greatest way of fighting.

In the real fighting as a real Budo person, you need to know many different kinds of Kata and need to use appropriate ones spontaneously depend on the opponent’s movement. Therefore, if they don’t take Kata seriously, which means they don’t know the real quality of Bujutsu.
Morikawa: I surely understand that now. When I go to an ancient Budo matches, I tend to watch Kata carelessly. However, if you know that each Kata’s creator went through the dangerous fighting, and created Kata, it makes me feel that Kata is very exciting.

Kurota: Kata in ancient Budo is very important to pay attention because if this Kata disappears, no one ever can create the same Kata again. Matsumoto-sensei from ancient Budo association also said, “If Tokyo gets destroyed for some reasons, we can rebuild Tokyo if we have to. On the other hand, Kata in ancient Budo will disappear unless someone solidly carries on. Those Kata is impossible to rebuild once it’s forgotten, so we need to educate successors well enough to carry each Kata. So, they will pass on to the next generation.” Matsumoto sensei always concerns about this issue.

Morikawa: I agree. Japanese Budo needs to be registered as cultural property in order to preserve it. You know, Japanese Budo has a lot of element s that you cannot find in any other countries. It might be coming from Japanese special ethnicity. We should be really proud of what we have in Japanese Budo.

Shimizu: Regarding Kata, Harujirou Kanou-sennsei also said many times, “Nowadays, only Randori (free style) became so popular in Judo. So, if they talk about Judo, they only think about Randori. This is really good for further development of Randori, however, we need to create the tendency to value Kata at the same time. Otherwise, soon or later Judo will be such a sloppy Bujutsu.” He is totally right.

Morikawa: In a way, Kata in Jojutsu are all beautiful as if they were using real sword. I was impressed when you all did so many sequences of many different Kata. No one is out of breath at all. By the way, how long is the stick you are using?

Wagatsuma: 5 feet. They are made out of white oak.

Kuroda-han (AKA Fukuoka) Secret Technique

Morikawa: where are you from Shimizu-sensei?

Shimizu: Fukuoka prefecture, as known as Kuroda-han. Shindo Muso Ryu traditionally had been forbidden to be taught in any other prefectures.

Morikawa: Kuroda-han! No wonder you were close to those famous people from Genyousha (Ultranationalist) such as Kiyoshi Touyama, Ryouhei Muchida, Ichirou Suenaga.

Shimizu: Yeah… I had never thought that I would live on Jojutsu. When I was little, I was influenced by those adventure stories about fighters, and I was thinking to go to Manchuria to be a leader of gangs! Many young men, at that time were motivated to go farther south or north to conquest. I was thinking, “I am going to south and will earn my own colony!” I was thinking all outrageous fantasy. Around the same time, one of my cousins went to Borneo Island and opened gorgeous photo gallery. So, I was seriously thinking to go south. “I am going to be a king of rubber-products and will be even richer than Mitsui or Mitsubishi Corporation!”

By the way at that time, people have a lot of complex towards white people as Asians. I thought I needed to go somewhere to make my own kingdom before anyone else does. In order to do it, I believed that I needed to learn how to protect myself. I already knew some Judo, but it wouldn’t be useful if someone tries to hurt me with knife.
Therefore, I decided to check Jojutsu which was really respected in my hometown. I went to a dojo owned by a famous teacher Hanjirou
Hakuseki. When I stepped into the dojo, I saw one person practicing with only one stick to fight over 4 or 5 people. Even though, that was a practice, it looked almost like a real life-risking fighting. Everyone was moving very sharp and I could not even breath. I was deeply impressed by them. I immediately entered the dojo. I was 18 years old that time. Since then, I practiced every day. Very hard. No matter if it was raining or snowing, I just practiced. I still wanted to go South with this skill. Though, my cousin in Borneo got Malaria and came back to Japan. So I went to Butokukai (Japanese martial art association) instead!

Morikawa: How long did you spend to get the license?

Shimizu: All together 7 years. And the next year, I received a full mastership. I was very quick to get there. I believe that no one has ever done it this quick.

Morikawa: In order to become a great fighter, it requires not only practice but also talent and mental training like enlightenment.

Shimizu: Right. But this is how I started going to so many different places as a representative of Jojutsu Masters. When I went to Butokukai, I met Hakudou Nakayama-sensei from Judo. That time was Nakayama style’s gold time. Nakayama-sensei was even better known than Sasaburou Takano-sensei. Nakayama-sensei was also a very enthusiastic to learn Jojutsu so he learned it from the famous assassin Ryougorou Uchida-sensei. He saw my performance and gave a compliment, “Muso Ryu is the best among Jojutsu. It is certainly well done. I am glad to see the real Budo now.”

Morikawa: Ryougorou Uchida is the father of Ryouhei Uchida-sensei who created Kokuryuukai. I wrote a book about ryouhei Uchida-sensei, so I researched a lot about him! I remember that in their next Samurai house, Jiroukuniomi Hirano was there too, right?

Shimizu: Exactly, The Jirou Hirano’s father was the greatest Jojutsu fighter. Everyone followed by the father and learned Jojutsu. Therefore, Nakayama-sensei was also very interested in Jojutsu. He was impressed by my performance, and then he introduced me to Harugorou Kanou-sensei.

Morikawa: What is the connection between Jojutsu and Judo?

Shimizu: I thought there is no connection between Jojutsu and Judo. However, Nakayama-sensei saw me performing and he said he wants to take some Jojutsu elements into Judo. Judo is in a way useless unless you don’t touch the opponents’ body. If the opponent has a knives or swords, you need to make them drop the weapon first in order to make Judo work. So Nakayama-sensei thought if he combined Judo and Jojutsu it would be a greatest self-defense technique. I was very impressed by this idea.

Morikawa: That sounds make sense. If you consider the real situation for the self protection, there is a necessity to combine two of them. So what did you say to him?

Shimizu: I felt honored and promised him that I will help him as much as I can. However, Nakamura-sensei was already very old at that time, and he could not join our work. Instead, he told everyone all over Fukuoka who has Yodan or above in Judo to enter Jojutsu dojo.

Morikawa: When did you come to Tokyo?

Shimizu: In 1926, there was a March festival in Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department. This festival was a memorial day for those who died in their duties. This memorial event included a Martial Art conference, and 7 Budo people from all over Japan were invited to perform. One of my students from my dojo and myself were chosen among 7 people and performed in a stadium. Then, the next morning, many newspapers talked about Jojutsu. One of the newspaper said, “I have seen Jojutsu from Nakayama-sensei, but this is the first time to see such a powerful one. The stick could be sharper than sword! This must be known all over Japan.”

Nakayama-sensei was very happy about this success too, and he brought me to many different places to introduce me to different Budo people. For example, I met Misao Suenaga-sensei who was an intellectual leader for Sun Yat-sen group (Chinese revolutionary group), people from military or police. Mr. Suenaga told me, “Jojutsu will be one of the most successful Bujutsu in this country. I want to teach this to Boy-Scouts! Do you want to come to Tokyo to work on letting people know about Jojutsu?” He insisted. Mr-Suenaga was such a great man. He even took Jojutsu lessons from me in order to know more about this, and then he said, “Now I can talk little about Jojutsu to other people to explain how great this is!” Around this time, the safety of Tokyo area was becoming a big problem. Therefore, the police academy sent one of the top-class policeman to my dojo. The Tokyo commissioner of police of metropolis said, “We should hire him.”

Morikawa: Then, did you come to Tokyo right away?

Shimizu: No. Coming to Tokyo would be such a big change in my life. This is a big decision to make. In 1926, I finally came to Tokyo and started teaching Jojutsu. First, I was just using a small space that boxing practice was usually done. That was such a small space, but the practice was extremely intense. First, children from Boy Scouts came to learn.
Kanou-sensei was also very happy about my success in Tokyo, and he asked me to teach in Kodokan. I was teaching in the Kodokan from year to the year till the end of WWII.

Morikawa: That is the time when violence from right-wing people became a serious issue, and police was also having a hard time with them. Right?

Shimizu: Right. That’s was the biggest headache for Tokyo Metropolis Department. Therefore, Domestic Safety Department and Tokyo Metropolitan Department got together to make a strong team together to fix this problem. They chose 500 greatest martial artists from all over Japan and made them to enter my dojo. This team became really effective for the maintaining safety in Tokyo. Mr Kurota and Mr. Wagatuma were in the team. It was called Special Police Team.

Kurota: The special police team was very intense. We always needed to be prepared for the call. When we got call, we needed to be ready in 3 minutes. There was a big hole in the middle of the floor where we were living, and in the center of the big hole they built a big iron pipe. When we got call, we slide down to the iron pipe to the basement. Once we got to the basement, we had to make a perfect line. In 3 minutes, we needed to wear the uniform and weapons. Now I think back and I am still impressed by everything we have done.

Wagatsuma: The special police team at that time was very strong. One time Socialist group got 3,000 people together in the Diet to make demo. This time, special police team had only 100 people, and we got rid all of them from the Diet.

Shimizu: Also there was a time Mr. Bin Akao took so many people from right wing, and they attacked the Soviet Embassy. He brought a lot of people, so the local police could not do anything. Then, only 50 special police team arrived there. The people from right wing were just about climbing and jumping over the gate of the Soviet Embassy, so the special police team used the sticks to hit their legs. When they were hit by the stick, their whole body got numb in a moment. When their body got numb, they lost their power on their hands, and then all of them fell from the gate next to another. Right after that, they got arrested. Actually, Mr. Akao told me later that he was really surprised what happened there.
He said, “You guys used those sticks really well.” There were so many cases that special police team taken care of big frays with small number of them.

Morikawa: This special police team was actually a “Shimizu team”!
Shimizu: Anyways, so many people happened to see Jojutsu and impressed with it. And then, Jojutsu dojo got so many applicants at that time. Moreover, Jojutsu became popular in Manchuria, Taiwan, China, and Korea. Very Efficient Fighting Skills

Morikawa: It’s said that after Hatanosuke Musou got trained and mastered the secret of Shindo Ryu in Katori, he stayed in Yashima and got inspiration of Jojutsu. However, he didn’t imagine that Jojutsu would be well known like this in 20th century.

Kurota: I am sure he didn’t even dream about it.

Morikawa: All right, then can you show your record of how many people you caught by using Jojutsu. Shimizu-sensei, have you used Jojutsu for street fighting?

Shimizu: I haven’t done that. Actually, Shindo Muso Ryu is very strict on how and when you can fight against people. We are also forbidden to fight against other Budo group people. If you fight with other martial art fighters, you will start having some sort of personal hatred. That is not a real Budo’s point. It is not for personal fighting, but for the social safety and loyalty for the country.

Morikawa: You have been following these strict rules since you were very young. It must have been very difficult to follow all those rules, right?

Kurota: Well, not that difficult. It is interesting, but if you are really focused on the practice and training, you really don’t feel like you're just fighting for personal reasons. I am not trying to advertise myself and Jojutsu here, but many people say those who are trained by Jojutsu tend to have a great personality. That could be true.

Shimizu: Well, many of my students used Jojutsu successfully to fight in the dangerous situation or protecting themselves. One day one of my student heard that there was a robber in his neighborhood, so he went there. There was a man who was holding chisel and wood and jumped on this student. My student quickly picked up a small stick and hit the robber’s hand. This robber’s hand got numb and got caught by police.

Wagatuma: Right after the war, there was a big accident in Shibuya by Korean gangsters. We also used Jojutsu to get rid of them.

Shimizu: When I was taking a bus, one police officer told me, “Thank you sir, I caught a level 6 criminal last night!” I got little confused, but after then I remembered that this officer took my lesson for only 4 months really long time ago. I asked him back how he did it, and he told me, “When I was patrolling, I got a call that there is a robber in a building. Once I went there, there was a guy who had a razors and throwing those razors at people. However, he could not hit anything or anyone, so he grabbed a wood and tried to attack people around. I thought he might be able to kill someone with this wood. So I backed off a little. Then, coincidentally, I found a stick! This guy is about to jump on me to hit my head! And I almost unconsciously did “Suigetu (water and moon)” form!”
I think what he learned for 4 months came out in this kind of extreme circumstances. It’s interesting that even though he just learned Kata, but when he did it he was training so hard. So, for the time he has to use it, he could use it even after a long time later. Honestly, Judo and Karate would be dangerous to use in this kind of situation because they need to get close to the opponent. However, if you use Jojutsu, you can use it in a real dangerous situation like this effectively.

What is the way effectively deal with dangerous situation?

Morikasa: When you have to face that kind of dangerous or serious situation, are there any secret to effectively deal with?

Shimizu: Yes, there are some. Isao Konndou, he was not that strong or great fighter in Kenpo. However, he created 5 techniques for fighting in the real situation. If you use these 5 techniques, it is said you will never lose. It’s not clear now what were the 5 techniques, but if I had to say what I would do, first attack their eyes then go for their balls. It’s good to splash tea or beer at their eyes. Old time fighters always left one third of their drink even if they were still hungry. It’s because they can use it for fighting. Once you get their eyes, you can attack their balls. Human body has 36 week points. You need to attack the point that they cannot train.

Morikawa: One of the famous Judo teacher said, “Grab whatever hard object around you, and hit their mouth! Break their tooth. Anyone who got their tooth broken, they are no longer strong.” It seems like people have different opinions over the real fighting.

Shimizu: A while ago, someone asked me what if I was attacked and choked my neck when I am sleeping. What am I going to do?
I said first I would spit on their eyes. It seems like other martial artists said, “Throw the pillow at this person” or “grab the person’s hand and twist.” But, if you are chocked, it would be very difficult to do those. On the other hand, human eyes are very sensitive so when the opponent got something in their eyes, they will close their eyes. When they close their eyes as a reaction, you can do whatever to attach this opponent.

Morikawa: Sound like the story coming from great sword fighter! This is very useful when I write stories!

Shimizu: Here is another interesting story. There was a higher level police and he is 5th dan in Judo. One day, in the small town one criminal held himself in a building with having a gun. Few police were told to get in to the building and ordered to throw stones at window as soon as they got there. So, these few police went in there, and as you can imagine, the criminal put the gun at them. At the same time, the stone was thrown at the window, and this criminal’s attention went for the sound. In the next moment, other polices got into the building and caught this guy. The stone worked as the sign to get into the building for police and also worked as a tool to make this guy’s attention to go towards something else.

Morikawa: Wow. This sounds like something that only those who got trained by Budo could do it! You need to understand the psychological tricks and move very fast accordingly. I’ve heard that great fighters in the old time used that kind of skill with full of wit. Mr. Kurota and Mr. Wagatsuma might have done that in the past, right?

Kurota: Mr. Wagatsuma and I stated training under Shimizu-sensei since Showa 17 (1942). We are the first special police team from Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department. We are also the first masters in the Shimizu style Jojutsu.

Morikawa: Sounds like two of you were the elites in Shimizu style Jojutsu. Since you were in the special police team, you must have had so many opportunities to use Jojutsu for the real dangerous situation.

Kurota: Well, as a matter of fact, if you have been trained by Budo, it seems like the opponents tend to get intimidated without using any skills. But, once when I was working in Itabashi as a patrolling supervisor, we could not have a stick because that was right after the WWII, because American military ordered so. At the same time, there was a serial killer in Tokyo. He was killing people using a sword. He got the reputation that if he sees people he just killed all of them. Also, he was really good at using swords, so no one could do much about him. One day he took a cab and told the cab driver to wave the cab fee. And the cab driver said no. This guy just killed the driver. One day, we got the information that he was running into a yakuza’s place. So I said to my boss back then, “I will go get him.” But my boss was really worried and said, “No way, last time when we got him, it took so many skilled fighters to get him. It’s too dangerous to go there by yourself!”

I said, “If no one goes there, he will just run away. I will take 2 police officers with me. I am going!” Then I went to the Yakuza place.
“I know you guys have the serial killer. You should let us take him.” “No. there is no such a person in this house. Please go home.” We were just repeating the same conversation over and over again. Mean while, there were 7 Yakuzas coming down from up stairs. Among them, I found the serial killer! They all looked very intense and trying to intimidate me. I told him “We know what you did. You should come with me.” Then he said, “So, you have the form of warrant to arrest?” I said honestly, “I don’t have it yet…That is on the way.” Then, this serial killer responded, “Then, why don’t you let me have a little farewell party with them. Once I am arrested, I will be in the jail for at least 5 or 6 years.”
Actually, he had a plan at this point. He wanted to kill some time till his other Yakuza folks get there to help him. I also knew what he was thinking about. The form of warrant to arrest had to arrive before those Yakuzas get this place. Otherwise, It will be very dangerous and difficult to arrest him. So, this serial killer was hoping his Yakuza folks arrive first before the arrest-forms, and I was hoping the form arrives first before Yakuzas. However, I should not create more dangerous situation than this, so I said, “Ok. You may drink beer. However, you cannot drink Sake.” I brought a chair and sat down with full of dignity in the room while they were parting. The party got really loud and people start getting drunk. Some Yakuza guy told me, “You should drink with us! Police officer!!” and I said, “No, I don’t drink.” I was just sitting there.
I have to say the moment required to have nothing in my mind and be very calm. Later on, those 2 officers with me told me that I looked very dignified. Full of confident and dignity intimidated the serial killer and he could not do anything to me. Everyone got drunk, and finally, the form of arrest arrived there before the Yakuza folks. So, I approached the serial killer, and grabbed his right arm.
However, this serial killer did not fight against me at all. He was totally intimidated by my attitude. I put handcuffs on his hands, and I took him to a jail. This serial killer said, “I thought you had more backups outside. You guys really came with just 3 people!” And my boss was very happy and immediately arranged for me to receive special award from this incident. Witt requires for Budo

Morikawa: I bet you also got a lot of awards by now, Mr. Wagatsuma?

Wagatsuma: Yes. I have gotten 15 of them. Here is a story happened during the WWII. In a café, there was a solder got really drunk, and he got violent with using his sword. I went there and found out that this solder actually a truly skilled sword user and plus his sword was much longer than ours. I thought it would be dangerous to just fight against him right away. What I did was I start teasing him. “It’s so embarrassing to use sword like this! in front of women!” He responded, “I am a solder working for this county! Shut up! You are just an officer! I will kill you if you don’t shut up” So I talked him back, “You say you are a solder for this country. Then, I am also an officer for this country! Such a shame you use sword to fight in a café? If you want to fight, why don’t we do just fist fight?” I took off my weapon and jacket, and told him “Come on big man! Fist fight!” He was convenient enough to get excited with this idea. He also took off his weapon and came towards me. Once he dropped his weapon, I was in the much better position than he is in. You know I am a master of, Judo, Jojutsu, and self-protection technique. So it was easy after then. I tied him with rope and I caught him. Right after that, solder supervisors came to the cafe, and they kicked him, punched him and took him somewhere.

Morikawa: That is such a smart way to deal with. It is truly necessarily to have wit to be a great Budo person.

Kurota: I was also very aggressive when I was young. My coworkers said, “If we patrol with Kurota, we don’t have to do too much work. One day there was a vicious criminal, and one officer caught him with handcuff. But the moment he put the handcuff on this criminal, he hit this officer with the handcuff. This officer was bleeding so bad. This criminal got even more aggressive and also he was very strong. We caught him again, but he was still resisting. So I put him in a patrol car, and I sit on his back to take him to the police office.

Wagatuma: There was also an opportunity to go to Kyoto with Mr. Kurota and Seiko Fujita-sensei. He is really famous with Ninjutsu. We were all taking a train, and in the train there was a man peeing in there. Especially when he found women, he got more excited and tried to splash his pee all over. It was such a mess. Everyone was screaming and running away from this guy. After he finished peeing, he came towards us and said, “Get out of here.” He, of course, doesn’t know that we are masters of, Jojutsu and Ninjutsu. So we said, “You better shut up.” And we ignored him. If we fought there, other passengers would get hurt.
All 3 of us had the same idea. “Let’s get him out from the train in the next station.” Then, the door of the train opened. I grabbed this guy’s neck, and immediately Mr. Kurota threw him in the air. Fujita-sensei was also really angry and yelling at him, “I am going to make you to drink my pee!” Of course we didn’t do it, but we took him to a police station. This guy got to know that we are all Budo fighters. He lost his words.
The relation between a great sword fighter and great dancer.
Morikawa: Ancient Budo is actually really effective in the real life. We should really respect it. As Matsumoto-sensei said, we should try to preserve it. By the way, I would like to talk about the Kusarigama (chain and sickle) now. How heavy is the ball attached on the chain?

Kurota: About 0.25lb. However, if you get hit by this one, you will be hurt. The sickle is about 12 inches. It’s double edged.
Morikawa: How long is the chain?

Wagatsuma: About 10 feet.

Morikawa: How about the rope?

Shimizu: 7.3 feet long. This is actually originally coming from Aikido and Jujutsu. Using rope is much safer to catch criminals. As we talked, handcuffs are actually not good enough. They can use it to hit people. Also, there was an accident that one guy who shot a police officer with wearing handcuffs because he was hiding a gun under his belt. Unfortunately, the policeman died. Anyways, there are so many different ways to use ropes. You can tie their hand or even arms.

Kurota: As for the stick. It is not only for beating people. It’s used in many different occasions too.

Shimizu: There was a woman who has been trained by Japanese traditional dancing. She needed to choreograph, but she could not think of anything good. She tried really hard to think of something good over so many nights without sleeping. She really suffered and started having some psychological issues. Her parents came to me and talked about her. I took her to my Dojo and showed some Kata. Then, she was immediately inspired from Jojutsu. By the way, her student got a greatest award for a dancer.

Morikawa: Jojutsu and Japanese traditional dancing had some matching point! That is such a beautiful story. Thank you so much for having me to talk about Jojutsu and Budo over all. It was really precious experience.